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March 02, 2008

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Edie

Max,

If I were alive two thousand years ago, I just pray I was a Roman citizen and not the poor stiff in his way.

I thought the purpose of learning our history and advancing as a civilization was to build our knowledge and understanding and not make the same mistakes made in the past.

You people advocating a superior power, completely crushing the people they're occupying and that they ethnically cleansed 60 years ago do understand this is not Hollywood, that this is not the Thunder Dome?

We're talking about REAL people? Real babies whose flesh is so soft to the touch and plump one just enjoys holding them? Grandmothers and grandfathers (and fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters) whose only crime was being born The Occupied, The Disenfranchised, The Cleansed?

Who are you to judge who is evil and who is just? Who decides who should crush who and when?

Someone using this logic would applaud and admire Saddam Hussein when he shot his cabinet members or gassed his own people. Now THERE was a man who knew how to deal with his enemies.

This logic would support the Serbian ethnic cleansing and massacres in Kosovo (you know, to rid the land of those 'evil' Kosovans).

Hello! WWII was suppose to teach us that even if war is necessary, war is evil. Certain protections were set up to help protect those too weak to protect themselves or those without the power - those NOT Roman citizens.

Todd

Hi Dion, thanks for this blog, I have followed your work for years. Now, let me ask: why are you not in Gaza? How could you miss a story like this? And now that you missed it, how can you not go and investigate what happened?

I am sure most of your readers don't spot the significance of datelining Jerusalem, but lots of your readers are serious enough to know that you phoned it in. And on a story of such import. A story that students, researchers and historians many look to, especially given the 'shoah' comments.. this last spasm may well find its way into the pantheon and you reported from Jerusalem.

There must be a story behind this, right?

And do you have any control over what your bureau publishes? Because it seems outrageous to have a story about Israeli zest for the IDF on the day after a gruesome 96 hours in Gaza. You must have logged and written that story from Tel Aviv during the carnage in Gaza?

Seriously, how can this happen, Dion?

Dion

Todd.
As someone who has followed my work for years, you know that I spend a lot of time in Gaza, that I was the only US print reporter there when Hamas took military control last June, that I was there when the border with Egypt was demolished in January, that I investigated the infamous Gaza beach shelling of the family picnic, that I was kidnapped there in 05, and that I regularly report from Gaza.
The most deadly day in Gaza in years took place on a Saturday when Israel closes the border with Gaza for the Jewish sabbath, making it impossible to get in. (They close the border Friday afternoon and re-open it on Sunday morning.)
That being said, we have a trusted colleague in Gaza, Ahmed Abu Hamdan, who is our eyes and ears on the ground when we can't be there ourselves.
The draft dodging story was reported and written before the latest events in Gaza. And, because of the news from Gaza, I did actually suggest that we hold off on releasing this story.

Max

"If I were alive two thousand years ago, I just pray I was a Roman citizen and not the poor stiff in his way."

Yeah, absolutely. The poor stiff didn't have a chance.

"We're talking about REAL people? Real babies whose flesh is so soft to the touch and plump one just enjoys holding them?"

For the Israeli the choice is either their babies or the Palies babies. For every human being the protection of their family is most fundamental. It really is all about survival in its most raw form.

"Grandmothers and grandfathers (and fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters) whose only crime was being born The Occupied, The Disenfranchised, The Cleansed?"

Yeah, what your mom says about life not being fair, no truer words have ever been spoken. One doesn't realize the profound way that is true until later in life.

"WWII was suppose to teach us that even if war is necessary, war is evil."

Absolutely. It is evil. It is hell. That is why when one engages in war everything must be done towards victory. Because war is the absolute last resort. War is hell so the alternative, defeat, must be unimaginable so everything must be done to prevent that from happened.

And when war is necessary the greatest evil is delaying ending the war by not doing whatever it takes to win. A prolonged war is far worse than an extended war due to some misguided view of mercy. It is not mercy. Mercy is actually ending the war as quickly as possible through swift ruthless actions so some sense of normalcy can return.

"WWII was suppose to teach us..."

What WWII should have taught the Jews is the need for a strong Jewish state to protect them. It is only through strength that they can ensure that their people and culture will survive. We can only wonder how Nazi Germany could have been different had more Jews there owned guns.

Max

"Who are you to judge who is evil and who is just? Who decides who should crush who and when?"

I am not deciding who is evil. I am not judging the Palies (well I have to admit I do see the Israeli culture as far superior). But in this case it really isn't about good and evil.

Who decides? Well in some sense it is nature. The stronger one gets to decide. That is why one needs to try to be a strong as possible.

And to answer the question when they decide, well that would be up to the leaders of the stronger country to decide whenever they feel they must to fulfill the most fundamental reason for the existence of their government which it to protect their citizens from outside threats.

A government who can't protect its citizens from outside attacks has failed in its most fundamental purpose and isn't a government deserving of respect.

Steve

"And when war is necessary the greatest evil is delaying ending the war by not doing whatever it takes to win. A prolonged war is far worse than an extended war due to some misguided view of mercy. It is not mercy. Mercy is actually ending the war as quickly as possible through swift ruthless actions so some sense of normalcy can return."

Absolutely right Max.

But in one way it is a good thing that War is Hell.

"It is well that war is so terrible - otherwise we would grow too fond of it." That is what General Robert E Lee said.

Max

Thank you.

But I do see I made an error in my statement.

I meant a prolonged war due to some misguided view of mercy is in actuality far worse than a quick brutal ruthless attack ending the war with finality.

Steve

Yeah, that is what I thought you meant.

It is like what General William Tecumseh Sherman said in his letter to the citizens of Atlanta.

"You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; ...I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace."

Max

Absolutely. War is such Hell it needs to be ended as quickly as possible through quick brutal decisive action. You need to crush your enemy as quickly as possible with the only caveat on that is being that the way you should choose to crush your enemy is the way that would cause the least casualties on your side.

There is no honorable way to kill, no gentle way to destroy. There is nothing good in war except its ending.

And as General Sherman said you can't refine war. Too many people think you can.

Steve

"If I were alive two thousand years ago, I just pray I was a Roman citizen and not the poor stiff in his way."

The poor stiff would either need to get out of the way or ally himself with someone as strong or stronger than the Romans.

And since 2000 years ago there was no one who had the power to go up against the Romans the second option would have been unavailable.

So the poor stiff needed to get out of the way or be crushed under the foot of the Romans.

These days however most countries aren't interested in increasing their borders and so it tends to be frown upon to attack in other to gain something. That would be inappropriate. Israel for example is attacking because their own citizens were harmed by the attacks of their enemies and therefore the government needed to engage in its most fundamental reason of existence, that is to protect its own citizens from outside attacks.

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ABOUT THIS BLOG

dion

Checkpoint Jerusalem was written by Dion Nissenbaum, who covered the Middle East as Jerusalem bureau chief for McClatchy Newspapers from 2005 to 2009.

Nissenbaum is now McClatchy's bureau chief in Kabul, covering south Asia with an emphasis on Afghanistan. See his new blog at Checkpoint Kabul.

Feel free to send a story suggestion. Read his stories at news.mcclatchy.com.

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